A Banner Day in Platte County

Oh I don't know...I figured people would be just flooding this site with comments after what I said. Darn it! You got me!!!

How come you are not getting much response?

Hey Randy! Are you any relation to Clark Kent?

Please tell me we have more people like Randy here than haha. PLEASE!!

Hey Randy!!! And thats the way we like it! Stay away!

all I said was that I was out of the current loop of this thread.  Live right in Wheatland, heart of Platte County Wyoming and proud of it... dont hate anyone, not even my ex.

Too Bad: No one who doesn't agree with Jack lives anywhere near you. Just like no one who is disgusted with the school board's actions lives in Platte County. Just ask Stuart Nelson. Heaven's no, everyone in Wheatland thinks Jack is really smart and that hate is a good thing.  

Neil I like your blog alot, good stuff.

Oh, I live here!  Right around the corner FROM YOU!

Truth knows no bounds. And yes, I live in Wyoming but I'm no "liberal." Libertarian yes, but not liberal.

Can't speak for the others.

Too bad all you left wing liberals have to gang up on Jack. Surely you people dont live here do you? I hope not!

Lol!  That's a good one! 

I don't say much to him, because I wouldn't waste too much time on him.  Why feed him anymore?  Bye, Jack. 

Jack, me thinks you became mentally unstable (ILL) from spending too much time on this site trying to justify your phobias. 

Antiquated beliefs and biased observations based in popular opinion. That is how it ended up on the list in the first place giving cause for the political climate that lead to it's removal. Just admit it Jack, every honest study from 1973 on concludes that it should not be listed as a mental illness. Your hung up on the idea that since the removal was influenced politically that qualifies it as a mental illness, yet there is no scientific evidence to support your position, never has been.

You're referring to a book that was written in the 1800's, about sadism and masochism!  Get a grip on yourself!
 
You are just too funny dude!

"I would like to add that a unbiased CONTROLLED observation would be creditable scientific evidence. Has anything like that ever been done?"

In reference to schizophrenics, MPD, bipolar and some other disorders I am pretty sure that has been done.
It would take me some time to find an answer on that, I do have a psychologist in the extended family that could probably provide me with something, but it's not something I could post right away, I would have to ask them.

"Now, "distress and difficulty in functioning" is dependent on the environment that the person lives, leaving up for debate whether negative social attitudes towards homosexuals would cause them to meet the last two requirements of the definition. Please consider these factors in your response."

This is problematic. There are many cases of people being seriously mentally ill without it causing them "distress." They end up causing distress in others. There are a lot of good examples among famous killers.

As to original? You need to have access to a decent university library, that goes pretty far back, pre 1900's through the 40's and a lot of those pubs are rare.
You are talking about people like Sandor Rado,
Charles Socarides and Richard von Krafft-Ebing in Psychopathia Sexualis.

Since I am no longer in school I don't have current access to them. You would have to make a trip to a decent University and look them up or have access to their databases which I no longer have.

When I was in school I read a lot of books and papers I have no way to get my hands on now.

However, whichever way you cut it, point two has been based on point one which was political, therefor point two is compromised.

On top of all that you have common sense. Any other item that appeared in such a small amount of the general population would be considered abnormal, NOT normal. It is like saying birth defects are a normal condition.

It's all based on emotion and politics.
The whole gene idea has been thoroughly discredited with twin studies. It will most likely fall out to be a combination of pre-natal and/or early childhood influences, in other words the usual places where most mental illnesses are either created or exacerbated.
 
To Outsider:
You never know, however I was a 55D20 in the US Army. I have had my status tested before receiving security clearances on several occasions.
If I were mentally ill I think it would have been caught long ago.
I do have a psychologist in the family and I think they would warn my family if they thought I had such problems.

You said yourself Jack that "there are a lot of mentally ill people that live their lives without being noticed, that doesn't make them well either."  Could you be one?

Also, how many schizos have a history of maintaining employment, continued education, and healthy relationships with peers, family and friends? That is not a appropriate comparison, Jack.

I would like to add that a unbiased CONTROLLED observation would be creditable scientific evidence. Has anything like that ever been done?

mental illness: A health condition that changes aperson’s thinking, feelings, or behavior (or all three) and that causesthe person distress and difficulty in functioning.
http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih5/mental/other/glossary.htm

This is what is up for debate: try to stay within the definition of mental illness. The first part of the definition I would agree that homosexuality fits this description (thinking, feeling, behavior) with exception of the word "health." It is the second part that is up for debate.

Now, "distress and difficulty in functioning" is dependent on the environment that the person lives, leaving up for debate whether negative social attitudes towards homosexuals would cause them to meet the last two requirements of the definition. Please consider these factors in your response.

Jack-
Your first point could possibly be agreed on... But we must first verify point two.

Would you please cite the ORIGINAL scientific evidence that caused homosexuality to be listed as an illness in the first place? If we are going to discuss SCIENTIFIC evidence we will have to start there.

Nice try but no.
You wrote: "This observation can also be reinforced with testimony from family, friends, employers, co-workers, social service providers, and others that interact with homosexuals who do indeed live normal, healthy, rewarding, and productive lives. Stories of people that embraced their differing sexual preferences and those that interact with them are all the evidence needed by those that do not fear diversity."

Stories and anecdotes are not scientific evidence no matter how you cut it. I bet you can find plenty of people that are schizo that will claim the same. There are a lot of mentally ill people that live their lives without being noticed, doesn't make them well either.

There are two pieces of this argument.
One, the APA's decision was political, not medical.
Two, that homosexuality is a mental illness, just as it was in 1973.

Number one is well established by the homosexual activists themselves and the history surrounding the APA's meetings.
Number two was well established for years and years and was only brought into question by number one above, which, you guessed it, is not based on any science or medicine but politics and activism.
This is not something you can decide on based on a few posts on a comment board.

I do not have the ability to post the text from dozens of books and studies here.

I posted enough good references to get you started. This is not based on one opinion and a lot of the material comes from homosexual psychiatrists, in essence, from the horses mouth.

Now you can search for the truth , which takes time and effort, or you can say "I'm too lazy to bother and will just let my emotions and current opinion decide for me." 

If that's the way you want to approach it, fine, but it does not reflect reality or the history of the subject.

I used to be considered fairly liberal on these issues and ten years ago would probably have agreed with you.
My opinion has changed because I actually took a hard look at it and investigated it.

Of course Joe Fabian would say news organizations "twisted" his words. Like someone else pointed out, nowhere did he say they misquoted him. The outrageous statements from Mr. Fabian that have been appearing in articles are DIRECT quotes from his mouth. Oh, but the big, bad media "twisted" his words somehow. Or maybe...just MAYBE...he's finally realizing what a colossal mistake he made in voicing these ignorant statements.